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Nathan Dudley & The Faith Tabernacle Apostolic Church in

Date: 2018-05-03 14:23

Jonathan #695,
So, if I am understanding you correctly now, you believe that regeneration happens both within water baptism and without water baptism. Depending upon the circumstances, right?
If I have it now, then from my perspective, you have it half right.
I guess where we really don 8767 t see eye to eye is that for me works of any kind, good or bad, if added to grace through faith for salvation, disqualifies us from the kingdom of God.
The Christ given law, love for God and neighbor, is exclusive of works of any kind. That is, the fact that one might have this love apart from DOING anything audible or visible. Let me explain.
When James said that he would show you his faith by his works, he wasn 8767 t saying that the person who didn 8767 t show his works was without faith. He said his faith was dead because it was alone. In other words it wasn 8767 t doing anything audible or visible. Just like a dead person doesn 8767 t do anything. The question 8775 Can such faith save you? 8776 was not rhetorical. The answer to that question is yes. Because we are not saved by works good or bad. :8,9.
The other thing about what James said is that he is referring to Abraham years after he had already been saved. Not someone who is for the first time trusting in God. Abraham in James 8767 account had been trusting in God for some time when he took Isaac to be sacrificed. :*censored*.
While the Abraham in Paul 8767 s account has for the first time trusted God. :7-5- 8775 For if Abraham were justified by works (this was before the Mosaic law) he has whereof to glory (like it says in :9), but not before God Abraham believed God and it was accounted to him for righteousness 8776 . He then emphasizes this point by saying that 8775 To him that works is the reward NOT reckoned of grace, BUT OF DEBT, But to him that DOES NOT WORK, but BELIEVES on Him that justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness 8776 . Again, this work is not a reference to the work of the Mosaic law bacause Abraham was before the law of Moses.
In Paul 8767 s referencing works with Abraham it should be clear that he is not exclusively referring to the works of the Mosaic law when he wrote Rom. & :8,9 & Titus 8:5,6. He means any works. For the objective reader this would include baptism as it is an audible or visible act. As Donald Todd previously said #656, baptism is a good work proceeding from the law of Christ and isn 8767 t counted as the 8775 works 8776 of the early chapters of Romans. But a work none the less.
The difference between faith and works is faith is simply believing, trusting. John6:78,79. When the actions, works that proceed from faith are manifested we SEE or HEAR it. James7:68. That is why faith is not works and works are not faith. They can be found together but works are not necessary for faith to be present in the believer.

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